Dr. Ketaki Chowkhani is an Assistant Professor and a Ph.D. Guide, at Manipal Centre for Humanities. She teaches courses in sociology. Her research interests are: sexuality, gender, and singlehood. She has a PhD in Women’s Studies from Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai, an MPhil in Cultural Studies from EFLU Hyderabad and an MA in English from Pondicherry University. Her doctoral research was on sexuality education and adolescent masculinities in Mumbai. She is co-editor of the book Singular Selves: An Introduction to Singlehood Studies, and has authored The Limits of Sexuality Education: Love, Sex, and Adolescent Masculinities in Urban India. Ketaki paints, writes poetry and composes music. She is also a swimmer who recently, in her own words, “completed my 1st national open water swimming meet. I swam 1 km in the backwaters. Was a nervous wreck the whole week, but now feel confident and happy!”
We are delighted to interview her for this issue of In Plainspeak.
Shikha Aleya (SA): Ketaki, hi, so happy to have you in this space, to talk to us about parents, teachers and CSE! Before we dive into this subject, please share a little bit about yourself growing up, and the beliefs and life perspectives that guide you, and connect to your work.
Ketaki Chowkhani (KC): Thank you for having me in this space. I grew up in Pondicherry and studied at an alternative school, the Sri Aurobindo International Centre for Education in Pondicherry. It was a student-centred education and we didn’t have exams or marksheets all the way until my undergrad. A lot of the philosophy of the place, integral education, integral yoga, have marked the way I view life and the world. The creative thinking that I learnt at Pondicherry has manifested in my research as well, and I try to be as creative as possible in my writing. My book on sexuality education is dedicated to my gurus The Mother and Sri Aurobindo, along with my parents, Punam and Daksha Chowkhani, and my doctors, Dr Falguni Jani and Dr Soumitra Basu, as they have deeply influenced my life and sustained me through my PhD and afterwards. I wouldn’t have been here if it were not for these six individuals. The philosophy of ‘integrality’ has been central to the way I think, and even though I haven’t named it as such, it has influenced the methodology I have used in one of the chapters in my book on sexuality education.
SA: Thank you for giving us that glimpse into your life. In the introduction to your book, The Limits of Sexuality Education, you have articulated some concerns, of which two you identify as “to rethink what constitutes sexual knowledge”, and, “the relationship between adults and adolescents”. I have a two-part question, based on these two concerns. When you consider this context, parents, teachers and CSE, what are the immediately visible and up front thoughts that spring to your mind? Then what are the less visible pieces of the picture you see that require awareness and recognition as a priority?
KC: To answer part one of your question, parents, teachers and CSE, must take into account that there is no ‘right’ sexual knowledge, that sexual knowledge can be received from various sources such as peer group discussions, jokes, metaphors, cinema, pornography. These might give some information that doesn’t seem right to adults, but I argue that they are equally legitimate ways of knowing about sex and that the entire curriculum and life is suffused with sexual meanings, and learning can happen at any point of time. As adults, we need to also welcome this form of learning rather than penalise it, and include it in our own dissemination of knowledge on sexuality education.
The second part of the question flows from the first, that there is an artificial divide between adults and adolescents, and that very often adults can also be like adolescents, their own adolescent dreams, desires, wishes are often dormant in them as adults.
What then requires priority is for adults to do some introspection themselves, about their own lives, rather than try and fix adolescent lives and think that they know everything as adults. And here by adults I mean teachers, parents, those who create the curriculum for CSE and so on.
SA: On the same theme, in a chapter of this book where you’ve focused on ‘Learning about sex in urban India’, you refer to some of the interviews and conversations you’ve had with young people, particularly adolescent boys. In this context, many insights emerge. One that you’ve shared is this: “Unlike the disembodied discussions of formal sex education, these discussions were very erotic and embodied; they dealt more with male bodies rather than female bodies.” This kind of observation and the immense diversity of actual content exchanged between youngsters having these conversations leads me to ask – how can parents, teachers, or a formal CSE curriculum, make room for the evolving and disparate realities of adolescents and young people?
KC: This is a great question. I feel that parents, teachers and CSE can make room for these disparate realities of adolescents by first acknowledging the limits of formal sexuality education, that the curriculum imparted formally fails in providing the kind of learning that happens through other sources. This doesn’t mean that CSE and the formal curriculum shouldn’t be there, but it should acknowledge that it is only a part of the learning that is happening on sexuality. Since most of the learning that sticks with adolescents is erotic and embodied; parents/teachers/CSE need to maybe incorporate those elements within their teaching and conversations. I am not sure how that will happen, given that shame is so inherent to teaching about sex. But in the Western scholarship on sexuality education there is a debate on the use of pornography within the classroom to teach about sex. I doubt that will happen in India, but that’s a start to think about the erotics of sexuality education.
SA: In this engaging interview where you are asking the questions of your interviewee, Professor Roma Chatterji, you begin with a concept that connects to the life prescriptions handed to almost every individual, long before we consider the role of CSE in that individual’s life! By connects, I mean in a way of challenging the prescriptions so: “We have plenty of content online about romance, love and relationships, but nothing about singlehood, especially not a positive, affirming, and celebratory take on singlehood.” Singlehood is far from the readymade prescription of grow up, get married, have children, who will grow up, get married, have children. Do you think CSE and singlehood are connected by society’s perspectives on both? In a contrary and questionable way?
KC: What a fascinating parallel you have drawn between singlehood and CSE, thank you for that question. I feel that like CSE, the basics of living alone, being comfortable with solitude, learning to be single and yet part of a larger community, thinking beyond the family, these are conversations that can be also had within the classroom. The binding factor between the discussion on CSE and singlehood is the question of love – for CSE, it is romantic love, but for singlehood it extends to love beyond the romantic, to love for family, community, god, the non-human, the possibilities are endless. bell hooks’ book All about Love comes to mind when one thinks about singlehood and love, and that book can be used to teach about love within CSE and talk about singlehood at the same time! Singlehood and even asexualities are ways in which love’s boundaries can be expanded for CSE, and I feel that it is important to explore all of these within the curriculum.
SA: Ketaki, thank you! A last question – in your experience, what helps make the shift towards support, acceptance of diversity and creating a safe space for all?
KC: I think I have in some sense answered that question in the previous answer, but love and fraternity, and a sense of genuine heartfelt comradeship is important in creating a safe space for all. We can talk about equality, liberty and freedom, but we forget that love and fraternity are equally important components of inclusivity. Without that feeling of love for all, it is not possible to have genuine support, acceptance of diversity and a safe space for all. Thank you.
