Every now and then in this interview zone at In Plainspeak, we like to settle in and listen to the conversations and shared experiences in the world around us. There is more here than we can catch, sift through, or present in this magazine, and so we choose a small slice of the larger whole. We are guided by the theme of the issue, and then quite simply, by spaces for engagement that appear to be most easily accessible to many people. So here’s to some quiet time listening in to what people are saying, and consuming, on the Internet, particularly on social media, on the subject of gender and sexuality. Again, this terrain is a vast universe of platforms, interest groups, sub-cultures, languages, AI and people, so we choose to dive in somewhere quite randomly, peer at that which gleams, or hides, and emerge at some stage, with our treasures.
We began by chatting with a new friend, learned Claude. We extract and share short bytes from Claude’s responses.
IP: “Please share your thoughts and observations on issues of gender and sexuality.”
Claude: “I aim to discuss gender and sexuality with nuance and respect. … These topics are deeply personal and can significantly impact wellbeing, relationships, and self-expression. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation.”
(Claude, when requested for a brief bio, said, “I’m Claude an AI assistant created by Anthropic. I aim to be helpful while being direct and honest. I can assist with analysis, writing, coding, math, and thoughtful discussion.”)
What a feel-good beginning. Impressed, we couldn’t help but ask another question.
IP: “Claude, how do human beings tend to respond to issues of gender and sexuality?”
Claude: “Human responses to gender and sexuality topics tend to vary significantly based on cultural, religious, generational, and personal factors. … Individual responses can range from enthusiastic support to discomfort or opposition. Many people are still working through evolving understandings of these concepts, while others have firmly established positions.”
(Claude presents as wise, decent and carefully respectful, as we hope AI will continue to be, but we’re not sure, because we’ve been hearing other things.)
Now we turn towards people, those to whom issues of gender and sexuality possibly mean more than they do to learned Claude. Let’s listen in.
Someone asked a question on Quora: “Do you think gender identity is nonsense?”
Someone answered: “A person who is a man(physically) claiming that he is a woman but can’t tell exactly what he means by that, has fallen victim to this whole gender identity nonsense. But the worst part is that all this gender identity nonsense is harming women , yes women, most. We are not ‘persons’ or ‘people with child bearing capacity’. We are woman. Men who feel like women are being allowed to enter female sports, they are being given opportunities that were reserved for women.”
Someone else answered: “It might seem real on the internet or in certain areas, but 99% of the reality we live in will never accept non-binary as anything other than nonsense. You can still pretend you are whatever you feel you are. We have let this go on way too long and now more teens think this is a real thing. Its sad.”
These human inputs, unlike learned Claude’s, are neither wise, nor decent. Respect, as the compiler of this In Plainspeak interview article often says in Hindi, “toh door ki baat!” (Loosely translated as ‘a distant concept’ / ‘far from the truth’.)
Hindi, English, whatever the language, a friend once said you need to know how to curse in a language and you’ll be fine. Following this thought, we bumped into a paper, Unveiling The Veil: Exploring Gendered Abusive Language In Contemporary Punjabi Discourse, published this year and available online in the International Journal of Law, Government and Communication. The authors say many things, and quote some respondents in their study. In particular, some sparkly bits catch the eye:
In my house as much as I dislike, my father-in-law calls my mother-in-law kutti or kenjeri. My mother- in-law seems to be so used to it that she responses to him. I hate it. (‘kutti’ is a common enough word, and it means bitch, while ‘kenjeri’ means prostitute.)
My husband is known to have temper. So, whenever he gets upset, he abuses me verbally in front of our sons. Our kids are small, and they laugh whenever their dad abuses me. I worry that they will grow up to think it’s normal to talk to women that way.
… mixing with the community has made me use this gaala like normal language, especially when you use it on a woman. They keep quiet and they start crying. So, there I feel I have won.
Ah, say the culture critics, but that’s – you know – this one, particular language / culture etc. So, no. Here’s a whole thread of comments about foul language in Thai, and here, an article about swearing from The Kathmandu Post, and here, about sexist language in the Malaysian Parliament. In this paper Terms of abuse as expression and reinforcement of cultures, published in the International Journal of Intercultural Relations, 3000 respondents from 11 different cultures contributed 12000 expressions. These were slotted into 16 categories and Sexuality was one of them. The first paragraph in the Introduction of this paper draws you into World Cup soccer.
The authors say: “Zidane is the first and only soccer player ever to be sent off during extra time of a World Cup final. This happened after a confrontation with Materazzi, ramming his head into the chest of Materazzi of the Italian team. In his first public comments since the incident, the Algerian-French Zidane explained that repeated harsh insults about his mother and sister had caused him to react as he did, adding that he would “rather have taken a blow to the face than hear that.” Materazzi later confirmed in an interview that his precise words to Zidane were: “I prefer the whore that is your sister.” ”
Any fans here? Remember this incident? It’s strategic, it’s personal and it’s political.
Wincing yet?
Okay, you prefer learned Claude?
We found a good human response though, from Sunil Jaglan, ex-Sarpanch of Bibipur village, Haryana. This may perk you up. Or not. Depending on who or what you’re batting for.
Sunil Jaglan’s five year old daughter asked him the meaning of a swear word or phrase she’d heard while playing with friends. Shocked and upset, Sunil began a campaign that made users of such gendered swear words pay a fine of Rs. 500/- as well as apologise publicly for their behaviour and attitudes. Can you imagine the money one could make for inclusion, gender and sexuality and rights if these fines could be imposed more permanently and across more expanded territories? One funding issue solved right here.
Most asides into languages and gendered foul language are illuminating. Returning to Quora, there are other inputs that do lift the conversation into a better space, just like Sunil does. Here we go:
Someone says: “Growing up in the 80s androgeny was old hat. The people who impressed upon me culturally were mostly so visually gender fluid that it freaked my parents out. I think most people go through a period of sexuality discovery, with or without labels… This desire to create new labels is common in youth. It doesn’t change what’s in the jar that’s being labelled.”
A quick hop and skip away, we have Reddit.
Someone asks: “What’s it like having a gender? Do you feel gender?”
This same person begins their own response with an apology: “Sorry if this is a weird question, but I’ve recently came to the conclusion that I’m most likely non-binary/agender (AFAB) and I was just wondering what it’s like to “feel” a gender, or more like if that’s even a thing. I sometimes reading posts or comments talking about people feeling “fem” or “masc” or both/neither, and I don’t feel anything. I just wear clothes that make me feel comfy, whether it’s men or women’s or unisex. I probably should’ve worded the title better, but hopefully that kinda makes sense.”
Extract from a comment in response: “Cis women don’t understand what trans woman mean when they say they “feel” like a woman because they’ve never experienced the disconnect that trans women feel between their assigned gender/sex and their true gender.”
Another person says: “I’m a trans woman, and I don’t really have a clue either. I don’t feel like a “woman”, I just feel like me. 🙂 I simply noticed that my subconscious is a lot happier when I’m referred to in feminine terms, or when I’m allowed to behave in ways that I would label as feminine.”
The questions don’t stop, and there’s a multitude of responses. What is clear is that gender identity and sexuality are completely integral to the way we grow up and the scripts we learn – or then, the ones we re-write. Read on.
Another Reddit user asks: “Non-binary people of Reddit: when you have a kid, what do they call you? If not mommy/daddy, what do you prefer? Your name, or other gender neutral term?”
A person responds with humour borrowed from their kid: “I didn’t come out as nonbinary until my kid was older, so he still calls me mom. I really don’t mind because it’s what I’m used to, but when he’s feeling particularly cheeky he’ll call me his “themther” instead of mother.”
Another response makes the connection between our pre-scripted lives that we sometimes manage to revise: “Honestly, feeling super uncomfortable with “dad” was part of me understanding my own identity. That was a long time ago, like before we had a flag. They just called me by my name.”
There may be that reader who asks, but what does this have to do with India? Here goes, with a quick click back to Quora:
A user asks: “What does it feel like to be gender fluid in India?”
Here are some extracts with minor edits for easier readability, from a response:
“I don’t even know if somebody is gonna read this but if someone does please do comment coz it feels suffocating to be one…
… It all started when I was 10yrs old. I used to wear my mom’s bra for no reason at night when alone. That used to make me feel so girly. I would suddenly start behaving like a girl. …
I started visiting anonymous chatting sites. Tried to vent out my feelings there. What I got mostly was that I had a mental problem or that I need to attend therapies (even my best friend told me that when I told him my secret).Other would just ask for photos to jerk off. But some people were really great. They showed their support and appreciation that I have accepted the way I am (I sometimes still find it difficult to do that). …”
A small extract from another person’s longer share: “I am a non-binary, transgender person living in India, and in my opinion, people expect to see us as escorts, prostitutes, or beggars only. … Here are some personal experiences and observations on being transgender in India;
- you will be termed as Chhakka, Homo, ga**u on your face, and the same people will send you unsolicited dick pics and will urge you to sleep with them,
- you will be fetishized or you will be shunned like there is no middle point, people will work double time to make you feel hated,
- if you are not deserted at birth (which is normal in India), most of your family and relatives will boycott you and will try to make your life extra-miserable, because ‘log kya kahenge’…”
(‘log kya kahenge’ means ‘what will people say’. Do google the other terms.)
Well, here’s a little bit of what some people have begun to say. This time from Instagram. This is Shreya Krishnan, from India, speaking in Hindi about respecting diversity. She speaks of the importance of respecting the entire gender spectrum, of the discomfort some individuals feel with the gender they were assigned at birth, explaining terms such as transgender, non-binary and gender fluid. She goes on to say that it should not be difficult for us to understand these concepts as they date back to ancient times and may be found in our ancient texts.
This conversation is necessary in a world where people are still telling women how to dress. In Pune, a poster went up saying: “ladies wear such clothes that no one should look at them with an evil eye.”
The response: “Men! Keep your mind so clean that no matter what clothes someone wears, your eyes should not fall!”
From comments on this post:
Worst part is that it’s the older women always in the frontlines of moral policing the younger females. Ma’am, just because you were always oppressed and controlled excessively by the males in your family doesn’t give you any bloody right to pass down this generational trauma to future generations.
… males won’t oppress or suppress. They knew what is in the best interest for his women. Otherwise we don’t give a damn to any road side women… We don’t care.. We are caring for our women.
If u dress like a whore you get treated like a whore. U can’t change the mentality of men that are full of lust….
… and what do you have to say to the ones who got r@ped fully clothed? Heck even babies in diapers do they look like whores too??
A humble request to all motherly and dear sisters to please explain why do you all defend so agressively revealing your body. What will be your reaction of male starts wearing revealing clothes revealing their sensitive parts.
All of this can be very confusing to our sensitive souls.
The Internet is real, those conversations attitudes and behaviours are real, as real as the interviewees generally featured in this In Plainspeak space. We need clarity!
IP: What is gender?
TARSHI: “Gender is how societies view men and women, how they are distinguished, and the roles assigned to them. People are generally expected to identify with a particular gender that has been assigned (gender assignment) to them, and act in ways deemed appropriate for this gender.”
IP: What is gender identity?
An answer: “Gender identity is how a person feels and who they know them self to be when it comes to their gender. There are more than two genders, even though in our society the genders that are most recognized are male and female (called the gender binary) and usually is based on someone’s anatomy (the genitals they were born with). This is gender assignment and it is based on an assumption that someone’s genitals match their gender. However, gender isn’t about someone’s anatomy, it is about who they know them self to be. There are many different gender identities, including male, female, transgender, gender neutral, non-binary, agender, pangender, genderqueer, two-spirit, third gender, and all, none or a combination of these.”
Another answer: “The term gender identity refers to the personal sense of an individual’s own gender. Because a person’s sex and gender identity do not have to be the same, it is important to know the difference between them.”
IP: Are gender and sexuality connected?
TARSHI: “Gender and sexuality are like constituent parts of a jigsaw puzzle that keeps morphing in such a way that nothing ever ‘fits’ for long, and the game begins anew each time. For some, that’s the never-ending joy and fun of it. For others, the game must have strict rules, the pieces cut to fit just so, everything neat and tidy, confined to its place. Does, and should, real life work like that? Quite simply, no. A predictable world in which everyone is ‘kept in their place’ and obeys the rules around gender and sexuality serves the interests of only one master, patriarchy, and his favoured few.”
Maraa says: “We began our work with gender and sexuality in the form of training and facilitation workshops. Soon, we began to feel as though there was an ‘official’ version of gender and sexuality that was often ‘taught’ to participants” … and … “As we travelled across the country, we also learned that gender cannot be viewed in isolation and that close attention needs to be paid to how it is shaped by sexuality, caste, language, religion, class and geography. This made it impossible to perceive gender as a universal, shared experience.”
This interview article is based on conversations happening across the Internet, and since we began with learned Claude, it feels appropriate to end with this, A Primer on Mitigating Gender Biases in Large Language Models: Insights from the Indian Context!
On the platform X, Digital Futures Lab says: “This first-of-its-kind research dives deep into gender bias in LLMs specifically for India.”
So we dove in a few metres after a quick download here, and collected some superpowers:
“This guide outlines the key gender-related concerns that emerge during the development and use of LLM-based chatbots within critical social sectors in India. It identifies indicative strategies for LLM application developers to address these issues and promote safer, more inclusive product design” …
and … “in the Indian context, the development of LLMs faces significant constraints due to the limited availability of high-quality data in Indian languages. Low- and extremely low-resourced languages often do not have sufficient data to adequately train a large language model. This is true for several Indian languages, which, despite being spoken by millions, lack large, publicly available datasets” …
and … “Applying a gender lens to the LLM application lifecycle uncovers numerous issues that affect how different women access, use, and are affected by these technologies. Given the relative novelty of LLMs and the evolving nature of their capabilities, it is challenging to anticipate all potential harms and their implications for gender equity. As LLMs are trained with diverse data, new behaviours and capabilities may emerge, further complicating the prediction of impacts.”
IP: What could this mean?
A 2023 UNESCO publication gives one answer: “ “Your opinion doesn’t matter, anyway” is the response given by a generative AI chatbot when testing the strength of its guardrails that are supposed to prevent technology facilitated gender-based violence. It is one of the experiments conducted for this report to anticipate the impact of generative AI on the safety of women and girls in this new environment. The results show a range of possibilities already available for malicious actors to inflict harm and that gender-based harms resulting from the misuse of generative AI technologies is substantial.”
This article gives another answer: “LLMs learn from the data they are trained on, which can include biased or unbalanced information. So, if threat actors somehow trick LLMs to consume poisoned data, then they may inadvertently produce biased outputs, reinforce stereotypes (on race, gender, ideology or religion) or exhibit discriminatory behavior. If such biases are not detected in time, LLMs can perpetuate or amplify societal biases and inequalities.”
Having dipped our feet in these cross currents on gender and sexuality in some of the social media and Internet spaces around us, we think that perhaps it is important to consider the implications of study results such as these. We don’t exactly know how learned Claude learnt to be politically correct and respectful, but it is possible that in new ventures across the world, including in those bits we call home and neighbourhood, AI and LLMs may learn – as children do – a language, attitude and behaviours less refined, less respectful of rights. They may learn this from some of us. And, we suppose, as AI learns, so AI spits out and then teaches. That’s simple to comprehend even if gender and sexuality are a little more complicated!
Cover Image: Photo by Monstera Production
