In the interview section of In Plainspeak we tend to chat with an individual, who generously presents their thoughts and insights on the theme of the issue. This is generally based on some questions we ask this person. The questions come first.
There are times when we bend the rules and draw on the walls. This is one of those times. We listened in on some of the chatter online on the subject of consent and we ended up with some questions. That is what you’re getting here – a reverse interview, that ends with some questions for us all.
One of the things that really stood out for us amidst the chatter is the voice of an octogenarian that we stumbled upon on X. Avanti Nagral, performance artist and entrepreneur, chats with her 89 year old aaji (grandmother), and here’s a tiny excerpt:
Avanti: “When it comes to sex, obviously some people do sex for babies but some people do it for pleasure.”
Grandmother: “No. Mostly it is for pleasure, the outcome is a baby. … Consent is the first thing. And mutual consent.”
We are thrilled to be able to begin with Avanti and her aaji because as we progress, listening in on other conversations and stories, it becomes necessary to hold on to practical wisdom laced with humour.
There’s so much being said out there, we’re setting out some of it here, organised under four parts. Absolutely not representative of the whole, so the sum of these parts is still not all of anything! Let’s go anyway!
Part 1 – Generally & typically
Here’s some typical consent-related content on some social media platforms from accounts across countries, regions and continents. This content does its best to squish the layered gello that is consent into manageable definitions. It involves some is and isn’t, some yes and no, and – the human memory exercise favourite – acronyms.
FII on X: Consent is the most important factor when it comes to intimacy. Sex without consent is simply assault. Therefore, it is important that consent is communicated. #NoMeansNo”
This post from letmeknowuk deals with the significance and role of ‘Yes’: Consent is more than “yes”.
From womensrights_news we have, along with ‘No’, some ‘Don’t’s and ‘Not’s’ (don’t like, don’t feel, not comfortable, not today, etc.) It’s not just the post that’s key, it’s the chatter in the comments from you and me. And some others, who are not you and not I. So – comments in response to this post include:
“Oh wow! Suddenly, a rapist will surely now understand that rape is wrong. All we need to do is tell them that no means no”
“If a woman starts crying and says stuff like ‘It’s not fair! I never get what I want!’ sobbing uncontrollably and then refuses to talk to their partner for the next 2 or 3 days when her partner says no, Does that count?”
This got 6 likes and lots of engagement, for example:
“Hey… This is about sex, not random shopping expeditions.”
“I was talking about sex, although it could be just about anything. And why should women have to ask permission to go shopping”
“I know that YOU don’t care, James, because it’s not happening to YOU!
Take your whataboutism and leave, stop invading women’s space like this trying to make it about mEn, stop being so effing disrespectful.”
“yes I have girl friends that are manipulative like this and it’s also sexual harassment”
This is about when you could begin to feel that the chatter is lost in anger. In fact, the focus has become anger, all kinds of frustration, lots of binary thinking and complete confusion. See for example this post on Threads:
“I’m not sure” means no. “I’m not ready” means no. “I don’t want to” means no. “Please stop” means no. Crying means no. Silence means no. Agreeing only after being pressured means no. The only thing that means yes is yes. Consent is not a negotiation”
To which, one of the responses is, “That’s not how consent works lol. You are not the my boss and I’m not ur slave. You have to make it clear that you DO NOT consent for me to understand that you didn’t. Nobody is ur servant here”
So now, we’ve turned it into tick boxes. Pretty much like this clinical WHO post on X:
“Consent means actively agreeing to be sexual with someone.
It
must be freely given must be explicit in words or actions must be specific to each act can be withdrawn at any time
Respect boundaries. Support survivors.
#EndViolence against women and girls”
And for those who want to remember the concept of consent, what it is, or is not, just to, you know, get it right in the exam, we’ve got acronyms.
The account of Victim Services Toronto refers to the FRIES model of consent in this post:
“The FRIES model for consent was created by @plannedparenthood to help us understand all the important parts of consent…
Consent should be:
Freely given
Reversible
Informed
Enthusiastic
Specific
… if a situation isn’t hitting all the letters of FRIES, it’s time to pause and check in”
FRIES isn’t enough for you? Want it CRISP? We’ve got you covered. Take a look at this where folks have spent a great deal of effort and energy bringing forward a different context to consent – the environment and practices in the entertainment industry. “We’ve been having a lot of internal discussions about the shortcomings of FRIES over the last year and a half, and we are excited to have a new acrostic definition for consent as it exists specifically in entertainment to share with you. CRISP!
Considered
Reversible
Informed
Specific
Participatory
We’ve kept Reversible, Informed, and Specific because those three elements are important for real and performed intimacy, but we’ve gotten rid of Freely Given and Enthusiastic and replaced them with Considered and Participatory.”
So far we have tick boxes, acronyms, and attempts to simplify in standard textbook ways. Digging deeper, we find other aspects of consent, such as in this post from the Joyful Heart Foundation which talks about consent and care, and on-going conversations, consent to be given freely, and consciously and that, not fighting is not consent.
Ready for the next bit?
Part 2 – Does Grok know? Or a new meaning to X-rated!
We asked Grok, “What’s the talk around consent?” Grok, being “your cosmic guide, now accessible on grok.com, iOS, and Android.” We met Grok on X, introduced to us as “an AI assistant with a twist of humor and a dash of rebellion. X users have the ability to ask questions, get answers, and perform other tasks using Grok, an enhancement of X’s functions.”
Grok said, “The concept of consent has been a hot topic lately, especially online. People are digging into what it means to give or get a clear “yes” or “no” in all kinds of situations – relationships, hookups, even everyday interactions. On X, the chatter’s all over the place: some folks argue it’s gotten too rigid, like you need a signed contract for everything, while others say it’s about time we took it seriously to protect people from coercion or misunderstanding.
“Big debates pop off when it ties into stuff like age of consent laws—think recent posts about whether 16 is too young or if 18’s arbitrary—or in gray areas like implied consent (e.g., does flirting mean you’re down?). Then there’s the cultural angle: some say consent’s framed differently depending on where you’re from, and that’s clashing with globalized norms online.”
An aside – speaking to and of Grok, we’ve got to remember something. The future includes some of what we’ve always known. As this post tells us, “advanced AI models are learning to cheat.” Not surprising. The human being is brilliant; like some other creatures in nature, has learnt to cheat over generations of competition and survival; has created AI, now leans into AI and wants AI to think for us. The brilliance of cheating, right or wrong being not in question, cannot escape AI. What does this mean when we lean into AI to understand, say, a concept like consent, beyond tick boxes? When does AI tell us how to deal with consent issues and some cheat fixes?
Back to X, where Rituparna Chatterjee @MasalaBai speaks of comments from men on her posts regarding consent, such as, “when you marry you automatically give consent for sex”. As Rituparna goes on to say, “First, no you don’t. You still have to respect your spouse’s wish and no still means no. Second, this paints an accurate picture of why India is unsafe for women.”
Comments to this post include:
“The man returns from a hectic official tour, finds his wife with her lover. Husband threatens to divorce or tell everybody about this living in that area. Wife threatens him with marital rape and tells him to cope”
“Consent for sex?
Den consent for kiss, for touch
Men will say consent for using his house, money, car, food
MARRIAGE is Commitment 2 love n care forever
Consent for sex in marriage is simply consent for love, already taken!
Being lovers it’s now ur duty 2 give love when needed”
More? Yes.
Part 3 – The laws and – us – the children of yesterday, today and tomorrow
This quick history post on X from Agents of Ishq tells us that the law, in India had an age of consent only for girls, which was originally 10 years, and with amendments was raised over time to 12, and so on. Today as per POCSO, the age of consent is 18, and so, POCSO is considered a gender-neutral Act. This is explained well in this article on the website of India Legal Live, “We did not have any age of consent for boys, and it was only in 2012 that our lawmakers woke up to the possibility of sexual abuse of minor boys. In 2012, a gender-neutral legislation was passed for the protection of children against sexual offences. POCSO fixed the age of consent for both boys as well as girls at 18.”
Are we achieving the desired protection of children now? Point of View in this post says, “When we talk to children about consent, sex & sexuality, we want to be sure they understand what we’re saying. It’s important to know what a child is able to understand at their age & explain concepts that they can relate to.”
And Hidden Pockets Collective on X in a post from 2020 says, “A country’s laws regarding sex, sexual orientation, sexual consent, sexual and reproductive health, access to abortion services, and access to different types of contraceptives can often become autonomy-snatchers in the name of protecting children and adolescents. #Ageofconsent”
In this post, Consent Educator Sarah Casper writes, “When a child overhears us telling our friend, ‘I really don’t have the energy to go, but I feel he’ll be mad if I don’t,’ they’re learning to conceal the truth about their capacity and make decisions based on others’ emotions.” And here, Sarah points out, “Most courses and workshops on teaching consent will emphasize what real consent is and what “counts” as consent. But this is setting our students up to exploit technicalities instead of embodying the skills for caring for their boundaries and desires alongside the boundaries and desires of others.”
United by attitude, in our part of the world AWARE India, says, “Lessons in consent don’t have to focus on sex. Teach kids about consent as early as possible with daily situations and language. Show kids that they get to decide what happens to their bodies by letting them be the ‘boss’ of their body.”
And now, the last part of this reverse interview connects to the beginning!
Part 4 – Love, sex, consent and – the older adult
Since we began with aaji, here’s a less spoken about portion of the territory – consent and older adults. In this post, Dementia UK says, “Sex can be a sensitive subject to discuss at any age, but talking about sex and consent is just as important for older people and those with #dementia. This article provides an interesting look into how care homes navigate consent and sex between residents. Referring to a specific case, the article shares the experience of care home workers: “In the case of Frank and Mary, their adult offspring found their parents’ increasingly intimate relationship disturbing. A meeting was called and the decision made to separate them – moving him to another floor.
“It destroyed her,” Millie, then a young care worker at the home, tells the other participants. “She became really challenging. It was so cruel. We had no idea how to handle it. There was no training, no support. We failed them. It was awful, awful for everyone.”
What are the thoughts, and conversations if any, around this, in India? After all our older adults are born of our Indian culture. We went into Quora, where a user asked, “Is it okay to remarry at the age of 60? Being a pensioner, and being disagreeable by family members and relatives in India especially my daughter straightway refused and meet my would be.” So here’s consent flipped on its head. At age 60, your daughter doesn’t give her consent to your desire to remarry. Oops. Anyway, we extracted portions from some wise and practical responses to this:
Maulana Oraf – “Destroying ur happiness to fuel other people’s egos is NOT the sign of a dutiful father. But Indian culture makes it seem like this. Like if a father is happy, he’s doing something wrong. This culture needs to stop!
I wish more seniors were like u so folks would be focusing on ourselves instead of mind screwing our kids 24–7–365.”
Mani Shankar – “It is definitely more than okay to remarry at the age of 60. Family members including daughter will have their own reasons to disagree with your decision but that must not deter you from implementing your decision.”
Rajiv Sethi – “There are two main reasons for the resistance to your marrying again. One is that you are being made a fool by the person marrying you, and the second is the fear of losing the inheritance that you would bequeath to your family.”
A greater variety of voices, many of them honest and powerful enough to blow you away, emerged in a 2022 study that we discovered. It’s called “Love in the Later Years…”: Perceptions of Sex and Sexuality in Older Indian Adults – a Qualitative Exploration
Mrs. L (72 years) – “You really expect us to talk about sex! An old woman talks about sexuality instead of spirituality and prayers – how will people around me take it?”
Mrs. M (64 years) – “We are expected to always remain supportive and good. Why is that? Because society expects us. What are our sexual needs? Nobody has asked. I am glad that at this age finally someone wanted to know about my experiences!”
Mr. P (70 years) – “I have always seen my parents and grandparents move away from worldly pleasures when they aged. I considered that possibly thinking about sex at this age is bad. Somehow, even though I enjoyed sex, in some corner of my mind it did not feel right.”
Mrs. P (65 years) – “My doctor was just dismissive. She said that at this age I should go for pilgrimage and read scriptures. Sexuality should be the last thing on my list.”
Referring to the LGBTQIA+ community, the authors say they are “nearly invisible in the popular media and health discourse in India. They share the dual brunt of ageism and gender-based discrimination. This can be addressed by putting together sexual health and general issues related to wellbeing, training in sexual health among physicians, and continuous and holistic care.”
These conversations are not few and far between. Here’s more from another article:
“Asserting one’s right to security and companionship may be legally acceptable, but for scores of elderly—especially women—a relationship in their twilight years still remains a taboo in society. Cultural stigma and their associated role as nurturers and caregivers keep them from making independent choices.”
Manimekalia (not her real name), in her 70s, who lost her husband to a heart attack – “My counsellor suggested that I try to find a companion. I feel it isn’t such a bad idea, but I cannot dare speak to my family about it.”
Sadhana Savagave who ‘faced strong opposition from her two children, who felt that she need not seek support outside’ – “Loneliness can hit anyone at any time. It’s a lot more pervasive than people think.”
Madhav Damle, who has founded a matchmaking service for older adults called Happy Seniors – “We saw that if a senior citizen lost their spouse before or at the age of 60, they had a whole decade or more to go on. And they have to do so without a companion.”
As the author of the article writes, “Kolkata-based consultant psychiatrist Dr Neelanjana Paul says many children are happy to connect their old parents to prayer groups, sports clubs, and senior homes but don’t extend the same sensitivity when they want to find love or companionship.” Dr Paul herself says, “This is a fundamental need in all of us. Depriving someone – especially in their old age – of this right isn’t just unfair, it is also cruel.”
Ah. Consent. Now, do you have any questions? We have three for you.
- If consent is more complicated than tick boxes and acronyms, do we need a different starting point to approach this concept? Suggestions anyone?
This is a big one. At In Plainspeak, we’d start with integrity of thought and behaviour. How do you practise this? Before you begin to teach it?
- Would you suggest we learn about consent from AI? Why? Or why not?
We say No – because even learning machines learn from us, and we’re not sure what we’re teaching them is good for them or us.
- What is it about the concept of consent that runs through everything, for everybody, no matter the age or the situation? What does this tell us?
We think it is respect and reflection. What say you?
